tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23905894.post4412371499490440925..comments2023-06-29T10:25:58.391-05:00Comments on Musings on Christ: Semi-Pelagianism? A Plea for Clarity and CharityMalcolm Yarnellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05527418213499559637noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23905894.post-47260084439879069172012-06-09T07:02:49.408-05:002012-06-09T07:02:49.408-05:00Dear Friends,
Family, church, and ministry calling...Dear Friends,<br />Family, church, and ministry callings are weighing upon me. Please note that I will only be responding here periodically. I look forward to joining this conversation further as we move forward together in the gospel.<br />In Christ,<br />Malcolm YarnellMalcolm Yarnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05527418213499559637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23905894.post-64708533100534184312012-06-09T06:50:07.472-05:002012-06-09T06:50:07.472-05:00Brandon, thank you for your gracious reply. Please...Brandon, thank you for your gracious reply. Please understand that the document does not intend to push away Calvinists. It does state the intention to move beyond the effort to measure truth by the Calvinist categories. The signatories I know desire truth and peace with our Calvinist brethren and the furtherance of gospel proclamation together, even as we wish to state our beliefs without desiring a narrowing of parameters. I laud your work with a traditionalist congregation. I do the same with Calvinist congregations. I was heartened by your response, for it indicates both the desire to understand and to move forward together. Blessings to you in your faith and work.Malcolm Yarnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05527418213499559637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23905894.post-45509028108149035512012-06-09T06:36:36.461-05:002012-06-09T06:36:36.461-05:00Adam, thank you for your question. We not see the ...Adam, thank you for your question. We not see the need for the Augustinian paradigm as required for theological formation, which means neither the Calvinist nor the Arminian systems are necessary. If the articles are all read together, you will see that grace is given priority. The lack of language that satisfies Arminian or Calvinist systematic requirements is simply not germane to biblical theology. We are not bound by this particular debate between Augustinians and believe it is time to move forward. As for what semi-Pelagianism is, I find the language itself aggressive and the term inapplicable anyways to this document. Blessings.Malcolm Yarnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05527418213499559637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23905894.post-86107207657022469332012-06-09T05:50:25.502-05:002012-06-09T05:50:25.502-05:00Hey Dr. Yarnell,
What I have seen in blog response...Hey Dr. Yarnell,<br />What I have seen in blog responses lately and what I heard in a church history class at Dallas Seminary in 2009 is that semi-pelagianism is related to man's free will. That is, total depravity is often defined as that which incapacitates one's will to the extent that they cannot respond positively to the gospel without the Calvinist's effectual (i think) call or the Arminian's previenient grace allowing one to respond affirmatively.<br />Is this new statement offering a third option on this point? (i hope so).<br />That is, are you all essentially arminians that are eschewing the need for previenient grace? Or are you contending that Christ's death and resurrection and the actual preaching of the gospel are the previently gracious acts required for one to be able to choose Christ. Or are you saying yes those things must be in place for one to respond to Christ but we shouldn't have to call them a fancy (and hard to spell i might add) title?<br />thanks<br />adamthe copelandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15058011538322902920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23905894.post-501032730879297402012-06-08T22:06:06.708-05:002012-06-08T22:06:06.708-05:00Dr. Yarnell,
As a young leader of a 6 year old ch...Dr. Yarnell,<br /><br />As a young leader of a 6 year old church plant we(the pastors) are trying to find every way to cooperate and glean wisdom from our fellow brothers within the SBC. We long to work along side our traditionalist brothers to reach our city and state and are working with a younger non-calvinistic church to reach an unreached people group in Thailand now. <br /><br />I understand that we're in a season of definition and re-orientation as a denomination, but quite frankly as one who affirms Calvinistic doctrines like election and total depravity... I feel very pushed away. It's disheartening that many feel a need to make our denominational theological umbrella more narrow than the BFM 2000 which leaves room for us to work together. As we sort through these coming years the dividing lines are growing much clearer within our denomination. It seems that the line in the sand isn't between Arminianism and Calvinism, but between those who are willing to work with those who disagree with them on soteriology and those that aren't. <br /><br />I appreciate your appeal for charity and I'm tired of both the straw men built in the traditionalist document regarding calvinism and those by calvinistic reactions to the document about the traditionalist.Brandon Swannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04800659866540284253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23905894.post-67508461645581107122012-06-07T16:56:01.754-05:002012-06-07T16:56:01.754-05:00Interesting question, David. First, the further cl...Interesting question, David. First, the further clarification of these issues really demands a careful reading of Faustus and Cassian, among others. You are welcome to sign up for one of our seminaries' patristic courses at the PhD level if you would like to pursue this question. It will, of course, demand a good dose of Latin to get to some of these texts. Second, please recognize that John Cassian was himself the founder of semi-Pelagianism, but who was still canonized a saint by the Eastern church. (Go figure. The East has less difficulty with Augustinianism, because they didn't build their theology on him. Of course, there are other problems.) So, the comparison is not between an orthodox Cassian and a semi-Pelagian Faustus, but between two semi-Pelagians, who themselves battled the heresy of Arianism. Third, the Traditionalist statement does not affirm that the free will of man is the "initial" cause of the reception of grace, as Faustus apparently did. So, the comparison you see does not stand. Fourth, please recognize that Faustus made these comments as he was responding to an error he perceived in a predestinarian scholar. This brings us to an important point: too many theological errors occur when trying to respond to the theological errors of others, especially when such errors are themselves based on extrabiblical ideas. (Please see my previous post on theological inferences and claims.) Fifth, perhaps the key here for us is not to dwell upon the complex ruminations and conflicts of early medieval theologians and philosophers, but to get back to the biblical text. Perhaps a good reading of Romans 10 will help us reorient ourselves to the priority of the proclaimed Word of God in salvation, and the necessity of our responsive call to that Word. Thank you, David.Malcolm Yarnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05527418213499559637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23905894.post-42979159555372621402012-06-07T16:35:01.178-05:002012-06-07T16:35:01.178-05:00Somebody named David left the following comment. T...Somebody named David left the following comment. The iPad problem again, so I repeat it here:<br /><br />Dr Yarnell,<br /><br />the definition you provide says that "the first steps towards the Christian life were ordinarily taken by the human will and that grace supervened only later." <br /><br />I suppose the question becomes what exactly those "first steps" are. If you turn in that same dictionary (I have the 3rd edition) to the article on Faustus of Riez, St. who is mentioned in the article on semipelagianism, you will see that:<br /><br />"He adopted a semipelagian position , insisting more strongly than John Cassian on the necessity of human co-operation with Divine grace, and on the initial free will of men, even when in sin, for the acceptance of that grace."<br /><br />Apparently, semipelagianism affirms that even the "first steps" are seen as being a response to grace. In this case, the "first steps" are referencing man's ability in his natural state though he is inclined towards sin still to be able to make a free will response of acceptance of God's grace. <br /><br />In this case it would seem that "the traditional statement" would seem to be in line with semi-pelagianism. <br /><br />Am I way off? help me understand. how do you understand what is meant by the "first steps" according to semi-pelagianism? And how is it distinct from the position stated in article 2?<br /><br />thanks for taking the time,<br />DavidMalcolm Yarnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05527418213499559637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23905894.post-19638685217738572652012-06-07T16:31:30.372-05:002012-06-07T16:31:30.372-05:00"Heretic" is a word used too often and t..."Heretic" is a word used too often and too loosely. Thank you, Rick.Malcolm Yarnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05527418213499559637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23905894.post-19012000593156432002012-06-07T16:30:57.145-05:002012-06-07T16:30:57.145-05:00Thank you, Brandon. That is my goal.Thank you, Brandon. That is my goal.Malcolm Yarnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05527418213499559637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23905894.post-4084732332935875442012-06-07T16:30:20.049-05:002012-06-07T16:30:20.049-05:00Thank you, Brother Meador. And blessings to you.Thank you, Brother Meador. And blessings to you.Malcolm Yarnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05527418213499559637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23905894.post-49051872301163727012012-06-07T16:29:49.061-05:002012-06-07T16:29:49.061-05:00Thank you, Dr. McKissic. You are a gracious Christ...Thank you, Dr. McKissic. You are a gracious Christian leader.Malcolm Yarnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05527418213499559637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23905894.post-37842269572997018712012-06-07T16:28:57.469-05:002012-06-07T16:28:57.469-05:00Thank you, Paul. I apologize for the complexity of...Thank you, Paul. I apologize for the complexity of that book. I will try better on the next one.Malcolm Yarnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05527418213499559637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23905894.post-20480056571971771192012-06-07T16:28:20.658-05:002012-06-07T16:28:20.658-05:00Thank you, Nephos.Thank you, Nephos.Malcolm Yarnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05527418213499559637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23905894.post-22474594282683871872012-06-07T16:17:38.593-05:002012-06-07T16:17:38.593-05:00For many years, I have suspected that I was not a ...For many years, I have suspected that I was not a heretic, but I am nevertheless overjoyed to have it in writing. Thank you.Rick Patricknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23905894.post-40835333817652247292012-06-07T15:33:54.204-05:002012-06-07T15:33:54.204-05:00Dr. Yarnell,
I am very appreciative of your expla...Dr. Yarnell,<br /><br />I am very appreciative of your explanation and find it very helpful. I am thrilled that this issue is being adressed, and I wholeheartedly agree with the statement. I believe it fully expresses what the Bible says, not some man-made theological framework. Amen!<br /><br />Brandon Ware, Morganton, NCBrandon Warehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00860138550672341617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23905894.post-11714453249017414472012-06-07T14:01:40.220-05:002012-06-07T14:01:40.220-05:00Very helpful clarification of terms! I agree whole...Very helpful clarification of terms! I agree whole-heartedly with your plea for clarity and charity in this discussion as well.<br /><br />Blessings - Stan MeadorStan Meadorhttp://www.rockymeadow.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23905894.post-89612725255903686252012-06-07T13:51:41.959-05:002012-06-07T13:51:41.959-05:00Dr. Yarnell,
Thanks for the clear definition of s...Dr. Yarnell,<br /><br />Thanks for the clear definition of semi-Pelagianism. I have a better understanding of the "controversy" after reading your post. My thinking and beliefs clearly fall in line with the traditional view.<br /><br />Dwight McKissicDwight McKissicnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23905894.post-59686476073908194892012-06-07T13:28:04.053-05:002012-06-07T13:28:04.053-05:00Thank you for for this article Dr. Yarnell. I have...Thank you for for this article Dr. Yarnell. I have found lately that there are more definitions for semi-Pelagian out there than mounted animals in Dr. Patterson's office: a lot. This makes it very clear. I appreciate your work as a scholar. <br /><br />PS I read your Formation for fun! I loved it but my brain still hurts from all the thinking. That's a good thing!Paulhttp://www.paulstohler.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23905894.post-64208783442540266692012-06-07T12:34:42.748-05:002012-06-07T12:34:42.748-05:00Thank you for your clarification on "semi-Pel...Thank you for your clarification on "semi-Pelagianism." This pejorative is no more helpful to the conversation than if someone referred to Calvinists as "semi-fatalists." <br /><br />I continue to hope the primary participants in this discussion maintain the spirit of charity they have displayed thus far.Nephoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06293900899142207084noreply@blogger.com